WLad
2004-06-08 10:25:03 UTC
Is Oberon alive?
Discussion:
(too old to reply)
damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
2004-06-11 15:23:55 UTC
If you mean ETH Oberon (formerly Oberon System 3), then it seems
implementation divergence finally has impeded development continuation.
That's an unfortunate outcome, considering native Oberon only misses a DVD
player and better internet support, to be the ultimate alternative OS.
Oberon is so creative! I mainly use it as a sketchpad for things i
previously could painfully do with MS-Paint,
here is an example:
Loading Image...
- damien
web page 1 : http://membres.lycos.fr/brickcaster/
web page 2: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alphablock/
implementation divergence finally has impeded development continuation.
That's an unfortunate outcome, considering native Oberon only misses a DVD
player and better internet support, to be the ultimate alternative OS.
Oberon is so creative! I mainly use it as a sketchpad for things i
previously could painfully do with MS-Paint,
here is an example:
Loading Image...
- damien
web page 1 : http://membres.lycos.fr/brickcaster/
web page 2: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/alphablock/
jmdrake
2004-06-17 15:51:34 UTC
Is Oberon dead? No. Comotose? Not quite. Very sleepy? Yes.
In 2002 two the BlueBottle system was made publicly available.
It's got quite a few cool features. (Built in webserver, ftp
server, VNC server and viewer to name a view). At least one
commercial website is now Oberon based. Also a new commercial
Oberon implementation was released in 2002. There have been
regular updates to BlueBottle over the past few years and
even a "Windows" BlueBottle version (although it's one release
behind the standalone BlueBottle version).
http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/
http://amadeus-3.com/
http://press.enigon.net/
go round the divergence is a mixed bag. With the "V4 versus System 3"
split you had in effect two operating systems that were basically
incompatible. BlueBottle, on the other hand, can still run System 3
code. It's kind of like running MS-DOS under Windows XP or ASP under
ASP.NET. The language has changed again and it's not 100% backward
compatible with Oberon-2 (it is with Oberon-1). Still the Native
Oberon compiler isn't 100% O2 compatible either. And like Native
Oberon, BlueBottle can also compile Oberon-2 code and the O2 -
Active Oberon modules can call each other.
That said the changes have put some developers in a state of limbo.
It kind of reminds me of when Microsoft was first coming out with
.NET. Some people held off ASP projects to see what the new system
had in store. I'm not sure what the final state of the BlueBottle
XML user interface system will be for instance. It's changed
quite a bit over the three major releases, and I get the impression
that the changes aren't necessarily backward compatible over each
release. (The latest one looks sweet though!)
Also some BlueBottle code has found it's way back to "Native Oberon".
For instance Edgar Schwarz first released WebDAV for BlueBottle
because BlueBottle has built in support for XML. But later he
released a Native Oberon version.
See: http://www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/
Also I'm working on porting XMLRPC to Native Oberon (again XML
support caused me to make it for BlueBottle first).
Something else I've noticed is that programming among the
accademic centers that support Oberon has diverged in general.
At one time most of the projects at ETH and Linz seemed to
revolve around Oberon. That spawned such interesting projects
as SwitcherLand and Oberon-D. Now some stuff that could
be done in Oberon is being done in Java or C++. But there's
still strong Oberon support. It's just not as pervasive.
(At least that's my impression).
reason than the legal wranglings over DVD decoding. I don't expect there
to be enough of a user base to warrant a commercial player. And
all of the harrassment the Linux programmer who released the DVD
decoding code makes chances of an open source version bleak. It's
a shame really. Prosecuting programmers will not stop DVD piracy.
Did it never occur to these industry lawyers that all someone
needs to pirate a DVD is a cable and a VCR? Plus many people are
downloading "screeners" that the industry itself puts out.
On a positive note the latest BlueBottle implementation can play
DiVX/AVI movies! Hopefully someone will implement MPEG support.
(There was a hardware MPEG module in the Oberon Switcherland
project. I don't know if that code would be of any help). With
MPEG support it should be possible to get Oberon to at least
play VCDs.
delightfull! Often it's the first thing I'll reach for
when I need to create sophisticated graphics for work or home.
Oh, and while I didn't mention this in the thread where it
was announced, I really liked experimenting with matrix cad.
The code is quite elloquent and it shows nicely how Oberon
Gadgets support RAD. Well done!
Regards,
John M. Drake
In 2002 two the BlueBottle system was made publicly available.
It's got quite a few cool features. (Built in webserver, ftp
server, VNC server and viewer to name a view). At least one
commercial website is now Oberon based. Also a new commercial
Oberon implementation was released in 2002. There have been
regular updates to BlueBottle over the past few years and
even a "Windows" BlueBottle version (although it's one release
behind the standalone BlueBottle version).
http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/
http://amadeus-3.com/
http://press.enigon.net/
Post by damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
If you mean ETH Oberon (formerly Oberon System 3), then it seems
implementation divergence finally has impeded development continuation.
Oberon divergence has been a problem and has for some time now. ThisIf you mean ETH Oberon (formerly Oberon System 3), then it seems
implementation divergence finally has impeded development continuation.
go round the divergence is a mixed bag. With the "V4 versus System 3"
split you had in effect two operating systems that were basically
incompatible. BlueBottle, on the other hand, can still run System 3
code. It's kind of like running MS-DOS under Windows XP or ASP under
ASP.NET. The language has changed again and it's not 100% backward
compatible with Oberon-2 (it is with Oberon-1). Still the Native
Oberon compiler isn't 100% O2 compatible either. And like Native
Oberon, BlueBottle can also compile Oberon-2 code and the O2 -
Active Oberon modules can call each other.
That said the changes have put some developers in a state of limbo.
It kind of reminds me of when Microsoft was first coming out with
.NET. Some people held off ASP projects to see what the new system
had in store. I'm not sure what the final state of the BlueBottle
XML user interface system will be for instance. It's changed
quite a bit over the three major releases, and I get the impression
that the changes aren't necessarily backward compatible over each
release. (The latest one looks sweet though!)
Also some BlueBottle code has found it's way back to "Native Oberon".
For instance Edgar Schwarz first released WebDAV for BlueBottle
because BlueBottle has built in support for XML. But later he
released a Native Oberon version.
See: http://www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/
Also I'm working on porting XMLRPC to Native Oberon (again XML
support caused me to make it for BlueBottle first).
Something else I've noticed is that programming among the
accademic centers that support Oberon has diverged in general.
At one time most of the projects at ETH and Linz seemed to
revolve around Oberon. That spawned such interesting projects
as SwitcherLand and Oberon-D. Now some stuff that could
be done in Oberon is being done in Java or C++. But there's
still strong Oberon support. It's just not as pervasive.
(At least that's my impression).
Post by damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
That's an unfortunate outcome, considering native Oberon only misses a DVD
player and better internet support, to be the ultimate alternative OS.
I have my doubts that Oberon will ever have DVD support if for no otherThat's an unfortunate outcome, considering native Oberon only misses a DVD
player and better internet support, to be the ultimate alternative OS.
reason than the legal wranglings over DVD decoding. I don't expect there
to be enough of a user base to warrant a commercial player. And
all of the harrassment the Linux programmer who released the DVD
decoding code makes chances of an open source version bleak. It's
a shame really. Prosecuting programmers will not stop DVD piracy.
Did it never occur to these industry lawyers that all someone
needs to pirate a DVD is a cable and a VCR? Plus many people are
downloading "screeners" that the industry itself puts out.
On a positive note the latest BlueBottle implementation can play
DiVX/AVI movies! Hopefully someone will implement MPEG support.
(There was a hardware MPEG module in the Oberon Switcherland
project. I don't know if that code would be of any help). With
MPEG support it should be possible to get Oberon to at least
play VCDs.
Post by damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
Oberon is so creative! I mainly use it as a sketchpad for things i
previously could painfully do with MS-Paint,
I personally find the vector graphics package "Leonardo" to beOberon is so creative! I mainly use it as a sketchpad for things i
previously could painfully do with MS-Paint,
delightfull! Often it's the first thing I'll reach for
when I need to create sophisticated graphics for work or home.
Oh, and while I didn't mention this in the thread where it
was announced, I really liked experimenting with matrix cad.
The code is quite elloquent and it shows nicely how Oberon
Gadgets support RAD. Well done!
Regards,
John M. Drake
damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
2004-06-25 21:09:02 UTC
thanks for your insights about Oberon divergence and developements.
(and also for having played and reported about matrix-cad)
things may not be so bad after all.
i am rather optimistic: each pause in the PASCAL family development is a
prelude to a new computer revolution.
- damien
(and also for having played and reported about matrix-cad)
things may not be so bad after all.
i am rather optimistic: each pause in the PASCAL family development is a
prelude to a new computer revolution.
- damien
Post by jmdrake
Is Oberon dead? No. Comotose? Not quite. Very sleepy? Yes.
In 2002 two the BlueBottle system was made publicly available.
It's got quite a few cool features. (Built in webserver, ftp
server, VNC server and viewer to name a view). At least one
commercial website is now Oberon based. Also a new commercial
Oberon implementation was released in 2002. There have been
regular updates to BlueBottle over the past few years and
even a "Windows" BlueBottle version (although it's one release
behind the standalone BlueBottle version).
http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/
http://amadeus-3.com/
http://press.enigon.net/
go round the divergence is a mixed bag. With the "V4 versus System 3"
split you had in effect two operating systems that were basically
incompatible. BlueBottle, on the other hand, can still run System 3
code. It's kind of like running MS-DOS under Windows XP or ASP under
ASP.NET. The language has changed again and it's not 100% backward
compatible with Oberon-2 (it is with Oberon-1). Still the Native
Oberon compiler isn't 100% O2 compatible either. And like Native
Oberon, BlueBottle can also compile Oberon-2 code and the O2 -
Active Oberon modules can call each other.
That said the changes have put some developers in a state of limbo.
It kind of reminds me of when Microsoft was first coming out with
.NET. Some people held off ASP projects to see what the new system
had in store. I'm not sure what the final state of the BlueBottle
XML user interface system will be for instance. It's changed
quite a bit over the three major releases, and I get the impression
that the changes aren't necessarily backward compatible over each
release. (The latest one looks sweet though!)
Also some BlueBottle code has found it's way back to "Native Oberon".
For instance Edgar Schwarz first released WebDAV for BlueBottle
because BlueBottle has built in support for XML. But later he
released a Native Oberon version.
See: http://www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/
Also I'm working on porting XMLRPC to Native Oberon (again XML
support caused me to make it for BlueBottle first).
Something else I've noticed is that programming among the
accademic centers that support Oberon has diverged in general.
At one time most of the projects at ETH and Linz seemed to
revolve around Oberon. That spawned such interesting projects
as SwitcherLand and Oberon-D. Now some stuff that could
be done in Oberon is being done in Java or C++. But there's
still strong Oberon support. It's just not as pervasive.
(At least that's my impression).
reason than the legal wranglings over DVD decoding. I don't expect there
to be enough of a user base to warrant a commercial player. And
all of the harrassment the Linux programmer who released the DVD
decoding code makes chances of an open source version bleak. It's
a shame really. Prosecuting programmers will not stop DVD piracy.
Did it never occur to these industry lawyers that all someone
needs to pirate a DVD is a cable and a VCR? Plus many people are
downloading "screeners" that the industry itself puts out.
On a positive note the latest BlueBottle implementation can play
DiVX/AVI movies! Hopefully someone will implement MPEG support.
(There was a hardware MPEG module in the Oberon Switcherland
project. I don't know if that code would be of any help). With
MPEG support it should be possible to get Oberon to at least
play VCDs.
delightfull! Often it's the first thing I'll reach for
when I need to create sophisticated graphics for work or home.
Oh, and while I didn't mention this in the thread where it
was announced, I really liked experimenting with matrix cad.
The code is quite elloquent and it shows nicely how Oberon
Gadgets support RAD. Well done!
Regards,
John M. Drake
Is Oberon dead? No. Comotose? Not quite. Very sleepy? Yes.
In 2002 two the BlueBottle system was made publicly available.
It's got quite a few cool features. (Built in webserver, ftp
server, VNC server and viewer to name a view). At least one
commercial website is now Oberon based. Also a new commercial
Oberon implementation was released in 2002. There have been
regular updates to BlueBottle over the past few years and
even a "Windows" BlueBottle version (although it's one release
behind the standalone BlueBottle version).
http://bluebottle.ethz.ch/
http://amadeus-3.com/
http://press.enigon.net/
Post by damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
If you mean ETH Oberon (formerly Oberon System 3), then it seems
implementation divergence finally has impeded development continuation.
Oberon divergence has been a problem and has for some time now. ThisIf you mean ETH Oberon (formerly Oberon System 3), then it seems
implementation divergence finally has impeded development continuation.
go round the divergence is a mixed bag. With the "V4 versus System 3"
split you had in effect two operating systems that were basically
incompatible. BlueBottle, on the other hand, can still run System 3
code. It's kind of like running MS-DOS under Windows XP or ASP under
ASP.NET. The language has changed again and it's not 100% backward
compatible with Oberon-2 (it is with Oberon-1). Still the Native
Oberon compiler isn't 100% O2 compatible either. And like Native
Oberon, BlueBottle can also compile Oberon-2 code and the O2 -
Active Oberon modules can call each other.
That said the changes have put some developers in a state of limbo.
It kind of reminds me of when Microsoft was first coming out with
.NET. Some people held off ASP projects to see what the new system
had in store. I'm not sure what the final state of the BlueBottle
XML user interface system will be for instance. It's changed
quite a bit over the three major releases, and I get the impression
that the changes aren't necessarily backward compatible over each
release. (The latest one looks sweet though!)
Also some BlueBottle code has found it's way back to "Native Oberon".
For instance Edgar Schwarz first released WebDAV for BlueBottle
because BlueBottle has built in support for XML. But later he
released a Native Oberon version.
See: http://www.edgarschwarz.de/oberon/
Also I'm working on porting XMLRPC to Native Oberon (again XML
support caused me to make it for BlueBottle first).
Something else I've noticed is that programming among the
accademic centers that support Oberon has diverged in general.
At one time most of the projects at ETH and Linz seemed to
revolve around Oberon. That spawned such interesting projects
as SwitcherLand and Oberon-D. Now some stuff that could
be done in Oberon is being done in Java or C++. But there's
still strong Oberon support. It's just not as pervasive.
(At least that's my impression).
Post by damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
That's an unfortunate outcome, considering native Oberon only misses a DVD
player and better internet support, to be the ultimate alternative OS.
I have my doubts that Oberon will ever have DVD support if for no otherThat's an unfortunate outcome, considering native Oberon only misses a DVD
player and better internet support, to be the ultimate alternative OS.
reason than the legal wranglings over DVD decoding. I don't expect there
to be enough of a user base to warrant a commercial player. And
all of the harrassment the Linux programmer who released the DVD
decoding code makes chances of an open source version bleak. It's
a shame really. Prosecuting programmers will not stop DVD piracy.
Did it never occur to these industry lawyers that all someone
needs to pirate a DVD is a cable and a VCR? Plus many people are
downloading "screeners" that the industry itself puts out.
On a positive note the latest BlueBottle implementation can play
DiVX/AVI movies! Hopefully someone will implement MPEG support.
(There was a hardware MPEG module in the Oberon Switcherland
project. I don't know if that code would be of any help). With
MPEG support it should be possible to get Oberon to at least
play VCDs.
Post by damien.guichardwanadoo.fr
Oberon is so creative! I mainly use it as a sketchpad for things i
previously could painfully do with MS-Paint,
I personally find the vector graphics package "Leonardo" to beOberon is so creative! I mainly use it as a sketchpad for things i
previously could painfully do with MS-Paint,
delightfull! Often it's the first thing I'll reach for
when I need to create sophisticated graphics for work or home.
Oh, and while I didn't mention this in the thread where it
was announced, I really liked experimenting with matrix cad.
The code is quite elloquent and it shows nicely how Oberon
Gadgets support RAD. Well done!
Regards,
John M. Drake
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